ANDY PARK:
Well, the federal government and the Greens remain at loggerheads over Labor’s proposed help‑to‑buy housing co‑ownership scheme, the latest front in a running parliamentary battle. As we go to air this afternoon, Labor is still trying to bring about the bill for a vote in the Senate, a fight they look set to lose as the Greens, the coalition and all but one crossbencher seek to delay the bill. The programme itself, which was approved by the House in February, would see the government co purchase homes with up to 40,000 first home buyers, reducing the size of the deposit and mortgage required. Susan Lloyd‑Hurwitz is the chair of the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council, the federal body established last year to give independent, expert advice on the housing industry. Welcome to you.
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
Thank you.
ANDY PARK:
The Greens say the government’s shared equity help‑to‑buy scheme isn’t ambitious enough. The opposition say it will also oppose the scheme because it doesn’t agree with the government owning part of someone’s home. Is this legislation a lost cause?
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
I think the help‑to‑buy scheme, if it was well administered, is one tool in the arsenal. But what we know is this housing crisis has been decades in the making and will take time to unwind. We need to be doing multiple things consistently over years for a long time to make a dent in this housing crisis, which is fundamentally about our persistent failure to create enough housing, enough supply to meet the demand that we have in this country. So, it is a good idea, but it is only one idea that we need to be implementing.
ANDY PARK:
The Greens housing spokesman Max Chandler‑Mather says up to 5 million people would be eligible under the income rules of the scheme, but only a fraction of those will get access to it. He also says that it would effectively pump up the housing market. Can I get your independent take on those ideas?
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
My understanding is that it would be open to up to 10,000 eligible purchases per year. So, that’s certainly not an enormous amount of households and that there are many, many households in need of housing. And we know, for example, there are 170,000 households in greatest need on the waiting list for social housing. So, it is, as I said, but one tool that we could apply to help some people into home ownership. I don’t see it as something that would have a huge impact on pushing prices up. It would apply to new and existing homes, would have the benefit of getting people into home ownership, reducing some of the negative effects that come from housing insecurity.
ANDY PARK:
There has been, of course, some good news this week. The rollout of 14,000 social and affordable homes announced by the government yesterday as part of the Housing Australia Future Fund or HAFF. A pretty good start to try and fill the gap. What’s your take?
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
It’s absolutely a good start. As I said, there are 170,000 greatest needs households on the waiting list for social housing. Getting going on building those houses is very important. It will take time to deliver. It in itself isn’t a silver bullet, but 14,000 social and affordable homes is a very good start.
ANDY PARK:
Property industry lobby urban task forces welcomed the announcement, but says that the half needs to be more ambitious. This is a word we hear a little bit in political circles as well as a criticism a bigger fund with greater dividend would get more people into housing sooner. Is that a fair comment from that lobby?
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
I think it’s important to get started somewhere. We’ve got a lot to do to deliver the homes that we need to reach the 1.2 million target of well located homes over the next 5 years. That is an incredibly ambitious target. The funding from the HAFF is one part of that and so hopefully we can accelerate over time. But it’s absolutely a good start to have 14,000 homes in the pipeline being funded.
ANDY PARK:
Do you think, though, that the debate about size and scope of the HAFF tends to ignore capacity constraints, labour and materials? We know that’s an issue that increasingly, output will likely drive production costs higher. In the current environment.
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
The construction costs increases were really driven not by overproduction in the system or creation of too many houses. Quite the opposite. We’ve been creating fewer houses was largely driven by supply chain challenges during COVID and indeed construction price pressures have eased slightly in recent months and labour shortages are easing a little. But we do need to solve the construction capacity issue in this country, whether that’s in social, affordable or market housing, and that could include getting more workers into the system through training and skilled migration, innovation in building methods, investing in advanced manufacturing. We really do need to increase productivity in the sector which has been running at for the last 30 years, which is significantly below manufacturing, for example, at 1.3 per cent. It is a system wide issue and something that needs concerted effort.
ANDY PARK:
It’s 4:14. Susan Lloyd‑Hurwitz is the chair of the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council. We’re talking about. We’re talking as the government attempts to progress its suite of housing measures through the Senate. The latest looks like it might be delayed. Not sure just yet. Renters, of course, they’re under incredible supply and pressure right now. We’re constantly talking about the cash rate and mortgages and mortgage holders. But obviously renters really are the bleeding edge of that and I hope that’s not too much of an appropriate analogy. You say rent price caps, which is what the Greens are calling for, won’t work. Tell me why.
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
Well, we know that 30 per cent of Australians rent and for many it’s the only viable housing option. But in so many ways, our housing system doesn’t work for renters and there are things we need to do to support renters to have a more viable and secure housing choice. For example, we would support national consistency on reasonable grounds for eviction. We could have no more than one rent increase per year, mandating minimum standards of quality, for example. But rent freezes and rent caps only serve to do one thing and that’s to reduce supply. And that’s the very thing we are trying to have more of. Evidence is crystal clear from around the world that rent caps and rent freezes do the exact opposite of what we’re trying to do here.
ANDY PARK:
And as for the opposition’s preference, which would be to use super for housing, opposition housing spokesperson Andrew Bragg was on breakfast this morning and again canvassed this idea. What’s wrong with that proposal in your independent view?
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
Allowing people to access superannuation, to purchase homes will only serve to do one thing and that’s push prices up. It undermines the crucial role that superannuation needs to play and most likely hurts households with the lowest capacity to fund the deposit and the lowest levels of superannuation the most. So, it is a poor policy on many fronts.
ANDY PARK:
Obviously, I don’t want to drag you into the politics of the day, but you must be concerned about the current divide between the government, the opposition, the Greens and the crossbench, you know, effectively holding back any progress on supplying more housing for Australians.
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
Look, we all need to come together to resolve this crisis. Everybody has a role to play. All levels of government, departments, agencies, the full purpose sector, the private sector and indeed local communities who need to be part of this journey as well. The crisis is such that we need to prioritise housing as critical infrastructure and my hope is that our political system can recognise that and we can move forward to prioritise housing as we should, to give Australia the housing system that we deserve.
ANDY PARK:
Susan Lloyd‑Hurwitz is the chair of the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council. Appreciate your time this afternoon, Susan.
SUSAN LLOYD‑HURWITZ:
Thank you very much.